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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on RSS and bandwidth</title>
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	<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/</link>
	<description>Musings on just about everything.</description>
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		<title>By: Rami Kayyali&#8217;s Scatterism  Archive:    On RSS Scalability</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1218</link>
		<dc:creator>Rami Kayyali&#8217;s Scatterism  Archive:    On RSS Scalability</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1218</guid>
		<description>Pingback
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pingback</p>
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		<title>By: RSS Bandwidth and If-Modified-Since</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1217</link>
		<dc:creator>RSS Bandwidth and If-Modified-Since</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1217</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that using If-Modified-Since to throttle RSS bandwidth can still be effective by introducing a minimum number of items. My feed currently contains 25 items. If I introduced If-Modified-Since throttling with a minimum of 7 items, then I&#039;d still get a substantial savings in bandwidth without unduly penalizing readers behind a cache proxy. ...[&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.ideoplex.com/blog/2004/09/#a991&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more&lt;/a&gt;]
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that using If-Modified-Since to throttle RSS bandwidth can still be effective by introducing a minimum number of items. My feed currently contains 25 items. If I introduced If-Modified-Since throttling with a minimum of 7 items, then I&#8217;d still get a substantial savings in bandwidth without unduly penalizing readers behind a cache proxy. &#8230;[<a href='http://www.ideoplex.com/blog/2004/09/#a991' rel="nofollow">more</a>]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Wyman</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1216</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Wyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Sep 2004 23:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1216</guid>
		<description>I document on my blog a method, which conforms to existing HTTP specifications, which permits per-request minimization of items delivered without breaking caches, etc. The method relies on use of RFC3229. For more info read:&lt;br&gt;http://bobwyman.pubsub.com/main/2004/09/using_rfc3229_w.html&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your comments would be appreciated.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ultimately, the most efficient syndication systems are going to be push-based. Nonetheless, we can still improve the efficiency of the current old technology &quot;pull&quot; based systems.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;bob wyman&lt;br&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I document on my blog a method, which conforms to existing HTTP specifications, which permits per-request minimization of items delivered without breaking caches, etc. The method relies on use of RFC3229. For more info read:<br />
<br /><a href="http://bobwyman.pubsub.com/main/2004/09/using_rfc3229_w.html" rel="nofollow">http://bobwyman.pubsub.com/main/2004/09/using_rfc3229_w.html</a></p>
<p>Your comments would be appreciated.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the most efficient syndication systems are going to be push-based. Nonetheless, we can still improve the efficiency of the current old technology &#8220;pull&#8221; based systems.</p>
<p>bob wyman<br /></p>
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		<title>By: Greg Reinacker</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1215</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Reinacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1215</guid>
		<description>Stephan, you&#039;re right, that&#039;s a potential issue. Most aggregators won&#039;t do this, though - for example, NewsGator for Outlook starts its interval depending on when you start Outlook.  And NewsGator Online spreads traffic out across the hour interval.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Not sure how many aggregators actually poll every hour at the top of the hour, but if there are any, I would encourage them to change that behavior.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephan, you&#8217;re right, that&#8217;s a potential issue. Most aggregators won&#8217;t do this, though &#8211; for example, NewsGator for Outlook starts its interval depending on when you start Outlook.  And NewsGator Online spreads traffic out across the hour interval.</p>
<p>Not sure how many aggregators actually poll every hour at the top of the hour, but if there are any, I would encourage them to change that behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephan Hodges</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1214</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephan Hodges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1214</guid>
		<description>One thing I think you didn&#039;t address is the comment I&#039;ve seen elsewhere that some (how many?) aggregators are hitting the server at predetermined times (on the hour, etc).  I&#039;ve seen this referred to in several columns.&lt;br&gt;That is something that I read into Scobble&#039;s comments, although I don&#039;t recall if he drew attention to that in the post you referenced.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I think you didn&#8217;t address is the comment I&#8217;ve seen elsewhere that some (how many?) aggregators are hitting the server at predetermined times (on the hour, etc).  I&#8217;ve seen this referred to in several columns.<br />
<br />That is something that I read into Scobble&#8217;s comments, although I don&#8217;t recall if he drew attention to that in the post you referenced.</p>
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		<title>By: John Cavnar-Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1213</link>
		<dc:creator>John Cavnar-Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1213</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t mean to imply that it was a CPU problem at all. And I really should have said that it&#039;s a design mistake (rather than a coding mistake). I don&#039;t think the solution to this problem is all that complicated.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;First, some assumptions: The aggregate feed has value to people (lots of folks are subscribed to it). Supporting the feed has a significant cost for Microsoft. The current solution (limiting items to 500 characters in the aggregate feed) makes the feed less valuable. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now, if I were assigned to deal with this problem, here&#039;s what I would propose:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Let&#039;s put together a 1-2 day meeting where MS brings in (i.e. MS pays the expenses) the main aggregator developers, the .TEXT developer, some IIS guys and maybe some  of the IE team and lets just hammer out a solution. This is a pretty small community (heck, I can list off the first names of folks and most people reading this will know who I&#039;m talking about: Scott, Greg, Dare, Nick, etc.). RSS/HTTP is a cooperative system. Let&#039;s have a little cooperation.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that it was a CPU problem at all. And I really should have said that it&#8217;s a design mistake (rather than a coding mistake). I don&#8217;t think the solution to this problem is all that complicated.</p>
<p>First, some assumptions: The aggregate feed has value to people (lots of folks are subscribed to it). Supporting the feed has a significant cost for Microsoft. The current solution (limiting items to 500 characters in the aggregate feed) makes the feed less valuable. </p>
<p>Now, if I were assigned to deal with this problem, here&#8217;s what I would propose:</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s put together a 1-2 day meeting where MS brings in (i.e. MS pays the expenses) the main aggregator developers, the .TEXT developer, some IIS guys and maybe some  of the IE team and lets just hammer out a solution. This is a pretty small community (heck, I can list off the first names of folks and most people reading this will know who I&#8217;m talking about: Scott, Greg, Dare, Nick, etc.). RSS/HTTP is a cooperative system. Let&#8217;s have a little cooperation.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stuer</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1212</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1212</guid>
		<description>(sorry for the reposed, but the tag dropping was unexpected)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;John,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do not agree that this is a CPU problem. If it is the server is badly implemented, and the solutions obvious. It is an I/O problem.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thinking of the top of my head here, but I&#039;d try to explore something like this:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In RSS 2.0 there is the &lt;category&gt; element of &lt;item&gt;, specifically:&lt;br&gt;&quot;&lt;category&gt; is an optional sub-element of &lt;item&gt;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It has one optional attribute, domain, a string that identifies a categorization taxonomy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The value of the element is a forward-slash-separated string that identifies a hierarchic location in the indicated taxonomy. Processors may establish conventions for the interpretation of categories.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would propose to define the a magic value: ***RSS2.0+***. The domain attribute of the category element that has as a label that has the magic value has the url where the full content of the parent &lt;item&gt; can be retrieved.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;e.g. &lt;category domain=&quot;http://www.example.com/item111&quot;&gt;***RSS2.0+***&lt;/category&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Feeds can now be summary feeds, fully backward compatible with all current clients, whereas the adaptations to turn existing clients and servers into incremental full content serving/retrieving systems are managable.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is just an example. I am sure more experienced minds on this subject will do far better.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sorry for the reposed, but the tag dropping was unexpected)</p>
<p>John,</p>
<p>I do not agree that this is a CPU problem. If it is the server is badly implemented, and the solutions obvious. It is an I/O problem.</p>
<p>Thinking of the top of my head here, but I&#8217;d try to explore something like this:</p>
<p>In RSS 2.0 there is the &lt;category&gt; element of &lt;item&gt;, specifically:<br />
<br />&#8220;&lt;category&gt; is an optional sub-element of &lt;item&gt;.</p>
<p>It has one optional attribute, domain, a string that identifies a categorization taxonomy. </p>
<p>The value of the element is a forward-slash-separated string that identifies a hierarchic location in the indicated taxonomy. Processors may establish conventions for the interpretation of categories.&#8221; </p>
<p>I would propose to define the a magic value: ***RSS2.0+***. The domain attribute of the category element that has as a label that has the magic value has the url where the full content of the parent &lt;item&gt; can be retrieved.</p>
<p>e.g. &lt;category domain=&#8221;http://www.example.com/item111&#8243;&gt;***RSS2.0+***&lt;/category&gt;</p>
<p>Feeds can now be summary feeds, fully backward compatible with all current clients, whereas the adaptations to turn existing clients and servers into incremental full content serving/retrieving systems are managable.</p>
<p>This is just an example. I am sure more experienced minds on this subject will do far better.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stuer</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1211</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1211</guid>
		<description>(this comment system seems to drop any tags, so let&#039;s try again)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;test&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(this comment system seems to drop any tags, so let&#8217;s try again)</p>
<p>&lt;test&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Weakliem</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1210</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Weakliem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1210</guid>
		<description>The other obvious thing is to compress the content.  IIS6 will supposedly do this out of the box.  And then there&#039;s the slashdot solution - ban clients that poll too often.&lt;br&gt;All that said, weblogs.asp.net is a pretty huge site and I could see them publishing extracts on the main feed, it&#039;s just too unlikely that someone would want to read even a majority of that content.&lt;br&gt;Danny Ayers also posted on the idea of &quot;rewarding&quot; clients that accept compressed encodings.&lt;br&gt;http://dannyayers.com/archives/2004/09/10/rewarding-clients/
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other obvious thing is to compress the content.  IIS6 will supposedly do this out of the box.  And then there&#8217;s the slashdot solution &#8211; ban clients that poll too often.<br />
<br />All that said, weblogs.asp.net is a pretty huge site and I could see them publishing extracts on the main feed, it&#8217;s just too unlikely that someone would want to read even a majority of that content.<br />
<br />Danny Ayers also posted on the idea of &#8220;rewarding&#8221; clients that accept compressed encodings.<br />
<br /><a href="http://dannyayers.com/archives/2004/09/10/rewarding-clients/" rel="nofollow">http://dannyayers.com/archives/2004/09/10/rewarding-clients/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter Stuer</title>
		<link>http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1209</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Stuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gregrphoto.com/rassoc/gregr/weblog/2004/09/09/thoughts-on-rss-and-bandwidth/#comment-1209</guid>
		<description>John,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I do not agree that this is a CPU problem. If it is the server is badly implemented, and the solutions obvious. It is an I/O problem.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thinking of the top of my head here, but I&#039;d try to explore something like this:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In RSS 2.0 there is the &lt;category&gt; element of &lt;item&gt;, specifically:&lt;br&gt;&quot;&lt;category&gt; is an optional sub-element of &lt;item&gt;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It has one optional attribute, domain, a string that identifies a categorization taxonomy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The value of the element is a forward-slash-separated string that identifies a hierarchic location in the indicated taxonomy. Processors may establish conventions for the interpretation of categories.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would propose to define the a magic value: ***RSS2.0+***. The domain attribute of the category element that has as a label that has the magic value has the url where the full content of the parent &lt;item&gt; can be retrieved.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;e.g. &lt;category domain=&quot;http://www.example.com/item111&quot;&gt;***RSS2.0+***&lt;/category&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Feeds can now be summary feeds, fully backward compatible with all current clients, whereas the adaptations to turn existing clients and servers into incremental full content serving/retrieving systems are managable.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is just an example. I am sure more experienced minds on this subject will do far better.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I do not agree that this is a CPU problem. If it is the server is badly implemented, and the solutions obvious. It is an I/O problem.</p>
<p>Thinking of the top of my head here, but I&#8217;d try to explore something like this:</p>
<p>In RSS 2.0 there is the </p>
<p>Feeds can now be summary feeds, fully backward compatible with all current clients, whereas the adaptations to turn existing clients and servers into incremental full content serving/retrieving systems are managable.</p>
<p>This is just an example. I am sure more experienced minds on this subject will do far better.</p>
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